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Jager (Save)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 09:37 pm: |     |
Carla~ Be sure to let me know what you thought of Home Built Descipline. Also pass on any helpful information as you read through the book.
Jager |
Carla in TX (Carlab)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 03:29 pm: | |
Susan ~ thank you so much for addressing my question. I just ordered Home Built Discipline! I've been wrestling with this for quite sometime and feel much relief! Hope we can discuss the book sometime. thanks ~ Carla |
Susan (Susan)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 02:13 pm: | |
Carla,
Although the Moores do sell the Ezzo's books and the Pearl's books, I corresponded directly with Dorothy Moore about this subject, because I also was concerned that these books are far more harsh than the Moores' own book, Home Built Discipline. She said that those books were only supposed to be recommended for parents who had a particularly difficult situation, where the parent has allowed things to get out of hand.
Home Built Discipline is a wonderful, balanced approach to child training. Mrs. Moore herself told me that they stand firmly behind what they wrote in that book, and still believe that spanking is to be used as a last resort, generally not used with a child who is able to reason, and never in anger or haste.
Please! Read the book, because it is wonderful. We followed it with our oldest two when they were young, and are implementing it with little Aaron as well.
The only thing we didn't follow was the advice to schedule feed infants, instead allowing our children to fall into a natural routine of nursing every 3 hours when they reached about two or three months old. However, if we had had a child who could not set their own rhythm, we would have used their advice in that area as well. |
Carla in TX (Carlab)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 08:05 am: | |
Jager ~ thanks for the tips! I especially like the laundry basket idea and the kid size cleaning tools. I also need to work on the kids helping me cook ~ I confess that I usually want them anywhere except the kitchen during meal preparation. They do help with cleanup but I suppose they would enjoy helping prepare the meals. My oldest 5 also has a helpful temperment.
I have not read Home Made Discipline and am wondering if it includes these types of tips and guidelines for training that are not very harsh. I find that many Christian training books are harsh and demand a spanking if first time obedience is not forthcoming. I don't even achieve first time obedience and can't imagine a toddler doing it. I have read so many discipline books and am burned out. I love the Moore's philosophy and would like some input on their discipline book. Thanks so much to you all. ~ Carla |
Jager (Save)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 08:23 pm: | |
I guess I should clarify that the two year old is not too helpful beyond putting clothes in the dryer and picking up toys. He immitates things like sweeping, vacumming and wipeing but doesn't actually clean things. He just likes to be included. I should also add that my two year old also drags things all over the house.The four year old is actually quite helpful, but doesen't do these things unless I'm working along side him. He does put away toys in thier proper place on his own sometimes. I too have noticed that my younger one is not as cooperative as my older child was. They have different temperments. As for how I teach my children to participate in household chores:
1. I keep our weekly routine pretty much the same.
Same wake up time, meals,bedtimes.We always get cleaned up before breakfast, cook breakfast together, clean up after breakfast. Activities between breakfast and lunch varies.Although toys are picked up before we start cooking lunch. We cook lunch together then clean up.Activities before dinner vary, but we clean up toys again before we cook dinner. After dinner we clean the whole house. ( That way we wake up to a clean house and take it from there.)
2. I insist that we clean up from one activity before going on to the next. Sometimes the kids drag toys all over and the task seems a bit to large. I have a large laundry basket that I put in the center of the room and have the kids put all the items to be cleaned up inside. Then the older one sorts the toys one at a time putting them in their proper place.
3. There is a proper place for everything. I don't have junk drawers or things of that nature.
4. When I do housework I have them involved in any way that they can help. I have kid sized cleaning supplies. We sing and talk while cleaning. At this point they enjoy it so it's not too hard to get them involved. The little one does not do much but likes to be included, so I try to see what he can do even if it is closing a door or holding something.Involveing them in the day to day household chores also prevents them from making a mess somewhere else as I'm trying to clean up.
I don't know that this helps but maybe it gives you some ideas. On a side note my four year old has an unusually cooperative attitude. It has more to do with his temperment that something I've done. |
Carla in TX (Carlab)
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 03:43 pm: | |
Jager ~ I have questions regarding your last post: [2.As for chores kids have, my two toddlers help in most housework. The little one is two, but he puts clothes in the dryer and picks up after himself. The four year old helps cook all meals, helps set-up and clean up after meals, helps with all aspects of laundy, vaccums, sweeps, mops, cleans up after himself and his brother,aids in yard work, takes trash and recycleing out on proper days, brings back canisters after pick up, things of this nature.]
WOW! You have done an excellent job training your toddlers!! Mine are dd age 5 & ds age 2 1/2. My oldest is very helpful but my youngest isn't as much as I'd like. I have forgotten how I trained my dd. He does not pick up after himself and drags things all over the house. Yes, I am not following him around all day. Am so busy keeping the house and taking care of the kids. I would love to know your training secrets! ~ Carla |
Jager (Save)
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 11:10 am: | |
Hello everyone. This is my first post.
1.For the most part I would have to say that we are doing well on balance. We recently relocated @ one month ago and up till this last week the focus has been on unpacking, cleaning, organizing, and finding a proper place for everything. Now the house is functional and clean. We did however keep on schedule for meals and bedtime. So balance applies to normal life before and now after move.
2.As for chores kids have, my two toddlers help in most housework. The little one is two, but he puts clothes in the dryer and picks up after himself. The four year old helps cook all meals, helps set-up and clean up after meals, helps with all aspects of laundy, vaccums, sweeps, mops, cleans up after himself and his brother,aids in yard work, takes trash and recycleing out on proper days, brings back canisters after pick up, things of this nature.
3. I have not read MYOB as my kids are still really young.
4.No
5.As for what I need help on the work/study/service program. I would have to say inroduction of phonics to my older son. He seems eager to learn to read. Will probably begin in a couple of weeks. At this point service and work are part of daily living activities.
6. Area of discouragement would be two year old still learning to obey. He is not talking much but is getting better at obeying as he matures and his language skills improve.
7. We scedule around bedtime and meals (anchors)We fill study, work around anchors. it's pretty balance as there is no formal learning requiremnts yet.
8. Character traits that hinder. This past month they have gotten a taste for videos.Although "educational" in nature still somthing I will now have to wean them from as they have become a bit addicted.
9.Ideal schedual. Youngest obsrves anchors,learns obedience. This is his focus. Older son, observes anchors and is balanced between phonics intoduction and preschool type activities, read aloud and helping with household chores including yard work. At this point things are pretty loose.
10. I think it's important to keep daily balance, yet have flexability to deal with major life adjustments such as relocating, new additionds,illness,deaths etc. |
Jo Dee (Jodee)
| | Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 02:42 pm: | |
Is our life balanced? No. We are still in transition. A baby changes things for a long time. Right now she is in another change on schedule, so we have to change, too. It's all part of growing. But we will bet a bit more balance back, I'm sure. Were we ever balanced? Not perfectly, who is? But...
My children do much of the cleaning. While I was expecting my latest addition, they did much by themselves. My stomach stuck out so much I couldn't get behind the toilet or anything that required bending into small spaces. While it wasn't as good as I would like (it was still hard for me to even inspect  ) it was good enough. They continue with chores like: dusting, helping with laundry, washing chairs, loading the dishwasher (they can help unload, but my children are very short and they just can't reach to put things away), cleaning the bathroom, vacuuming (we bought a battery operated upright that is lightweight, since even I have a difficult time with our regular vacuum, and my children, as I said, are very small for their age - well, except for my 7 year old, she's large for her age, but still not strong enough), scrub the floors, etc. They love to clean. I'm glad, I don't.
I've read MYOB, and the best thing it did for me was help me remember to keep organized. While things aren't how I want them to be (we do need more book cases, but I refuse to buy them until we move and know what we can fit in the new house - we aren't moving right now, but we will have to within the next couple years because there is no more room for a bed for the baby, room for the crib, but not a big bed) I do the best with what I have available right now. If something doesn't fit, but I need it, it is kept in a little used room to keep it out of constant sight.
Service, work and academics are all part of our life. I haven't really merged them together, except in character training or in work and service, which can be both. While studying something, we may make a craft to go along with it and give it as a gift, but that's about as close as we get to combining based on our studies.
My children need the most help with work. Not working around the house, but working to earn. While they willingly do things for others for free, they don't have the desire to earn. While that's good when it comes to not being greedy, it's not so good when they must learn that they can accept money, because God provides work for us to provide a living. They are getting some ideas of late, but we'll see.
Academics get the most time "alloted", but I consider the work around the house as "free time" and the time they take for hobbies is also free (like learning to sew, embroidery, etc.) which always ends up as gifts. One daughter is working on perfecting her embroidery so she can sell it. So all her work ends up as gifts. I'll post a picture of the bib she made for Opal later.
I don't think it's important to balance everything every day. If we tried to do that, it would be not be balanced. There are days (or weeks) when you must take all time for service, and sometimes you just need down time for yourselves to get back in balance afterward. For example, when my niece and nephew were killed in a car accident, we took a week to be with family and help. We cleaned, cooked, listened, etc. When we came home (we live 1,000 miles away from my family) we had to take our own break. If we would have jumped right in, we wouldn't have had time for our emotions to get back. After a week of down time, we slowly got back to life. |
Terri in TX (Territx)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 07:59 pm: | |
Hi. Even though I'm still new to the Moore Formula I thought I would answer these questions. The numbering makes it easier! Thank you.
1) Our lifestyle has definately NOT been balanced. I have always put WAY too much emphasis on study and reading books. Books, books, books. Even our schooling materials are off balance there. We are slowly trying to get in balance. Right now we are heavy on the work side trying to catch up from our neglect of the home while we were studying!  I have really enjoyed hearing bits and pieces of what people do for service. I can see that it doesn't have to be some big major event, but that I need to look at our life and let it be an outflow of that.
2) I have definately underestimated my children's capabilities as far as chores are concerned! It was my reading of the Handbook and this list that made me see that I was not handling this well. During this time we are spending getting our house back I have been doing things that will hopefully instill habits in my children for the long haul. And the best part about this "schooling" is that it has made the cleaning of the house more fun and less time-consuming! The kids really CAN help out a lot!!! It has been a joy to teach them and finally allow them to do what they've wanted to do all along: help me.
3) I have not read MYOB yet. I just recently purchased it. It will be my next read.
4) I hadn't even thought of tying school subjects to work and service until recently. I think I've finally decided to follow in Jo Dee's footsteps and do unit studies based on the Bible starting with Genesis 1. I have been racking my brain for work/study opportunities having to do with light. One thing I will be doing is putting an emphasis on turning things off at home to save money. I definately consider that a service to our family and the kids need a lesson on that!!! I also considered making candles as gifts. The point is that the Manual and this list have got me thinking in that direction.
5) Definately service. In the past I've always thought service had to be committing to teach Sunday School, or visiting a nursing home regularly, etc. But I've recently begun understanding that our service can be simple one time activities. That's where I need to start. One of my son's service projects will be to write short notes to people and include the pages from A Reason for Writing.
6) Service has been the most discouraging because of what I wrote above about committing to some major task.
7) answered already. LOL.
8) Perfectionism has hindered work and service for us. And it's been my perfectionism, not my children's.
9) Our "schedule" will be work service at home in the a.m. and school/service/work in the p.m. However, my ideal schedule will include all of these things without any creases. I would like for us to be able to incorporate all of these things into our lives so wonderfully that the kids (and me) really don't realize that there is a schedule...it's just part of our lives - part of who we are and what we do! Is this possible? Many things are "ideal" but unattainable here on earth. Can't wait to hear everyone else's comments on this question.
10) I think some of it has to be balanced over time. For instance...during the traditional school year my daughter only apprentices one day every week to two weeks, but during the summer she apprentices five days a week for 6 weeks!!! This isn't my "ideal," but what God gave us for her, so we deal with it the best we can. It is a wonderful opportunity for my daughter.
I'm looking forward to hearing other's comments on this section!!! I LOVE the idea of work and service being made such a large part of our lives. It is logical and, I believe, Biblical, though I never thought of it before reading the Moore's books. It is what drew me into wanting to know more about their philosophy.
Terri |
Helen (Helenw)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 02:51 pm: | |
In response to b).....We should not be "finishing books" but "finishing children." We always need to check our focus and purpose in our methods of educating our children....
Blessings,
Helen |
Susan (Susan)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 08:34 am: | |
Point #3 Work and Service Education
Overview: "Are you providing a balanced education for your child?"
We are told here that "wise parents never urge their children to spend 5 hours a day in study from books, and certainly not 6 or 8 hours!" The Moores recognize the need to balance the hours spent in study with work and service activities.
The reasons given are listed as questions. Is it:
1) to give the students something to do when the book work is done?
2) to help the very active child who cannot sit still for long?
3) as an avenue to apply math and science in a practical sense to give these subjects more meaning?
4) as an educational aid for the learning different child?
The answer is yes, to all these and more!
"Optimum balance in education is produced whenever new concepts from resource materials studied are put to use." All study without work and service promotes an unbalanced education (as well as being boring).
Now is the time to read "Minding Your Own Business". Review the home lifestyle and make sure the children are taking their share of home responsibilities. Consider reorganization to equalize responsibilities.
Study the work and service information in the section of the manual appropriate for each child's age.
Discussion Questions:
1. Is your school/home lifestyle balanced?
2. What type of chores/home responsibilities do your children have? Could there be more? Are we underestimating our children's levels of capability?
3. Have you read MYOB? How did it help you?
4. How have you tied in school subjects with the areas of work and service?
5. In which of the three areas (work, study, service) do you feel your children need the most help/encouragement?
6. Which areas have been the most discouraging for you?
7. Which areas get the most attention? Which ones get the most allotted time? How have you tried to balance these? What worked? What didn't?
8. Which character traits hinder work and service? How have you helped your children overcome these?
9. Describe an "ideal" schedule for your family that includes these three areas. How close do you actually come to this ideal?
10. Is it important to balance everything every day, or would it be okay to strike that balance over time?
I don't want us to jump ahead and start discussing each list of work and service suggestions for all the age groups. We can cover those as we reach those sections of the manual. Instead, right now let's focus on our family as a whole unit, and does our family life help or hinder these areas of work and service? |
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